We must learn from our failures! Case in point John Kerry’s implosion under Congressman Massie’s deliberately cynical and distracting questioning on April 9, 2019. Here I propose an alternative version of how that exchange could have been turned into a winning moment for rationalism, constructive learning and honest science, rather than descending into the waste of precious time it turned into.
It takes more than superficially knowing climate science bullet points. You need to internalize the understanding behind those facts. This is impossible without a deep appreciation for our climate engine’s evolutionary story.
You must also anticipate the GOP’s repetitive juvenile misdirection and the rhetorical dirty tricks they have honed to perfection over the decades.
{This is also an open letter that I sent off on May 3rd to
GOP Massie’s three offices. It begins with the following.}
Honorable US Representative Thomas Massie,
I am an engaged student of Earth Sciences and since our global heat and moisture distribution engine, read climate system, dictates global environments, climate sciences has become central to my pursuit of understanding our beautiful magnificent Earth and her life story. I’m simply a student, but I’ve been at it five decades now, so I know a thing or two.
I believe in constructive honest debate as opposed to theatrical political debate. This exercise is a combination of sincere letter to you where I answer the questions you raised, in the hope you learn something; > a direct challenge and examination of your malicious rhetorical games; > along with an examination of Secretary John Kerry’s text book failure; > and of course, as always, a personal learning project.
Incidentally, it’s worth pointing out that it requires a serious appreciation for our planet’s deep-time evolution, a prerequisite, before any true understanding of our global heat and moisture distribution engine is possible. I build my presentation around the video of your April 9th performance.
A response would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
Peter Miesler
aka Citizenschallenge
near Durango, Colorado
{I suspect GOP's Congressman Massie will hide, they aways do, but should I get a response I’ll be sure to share it here.}
00:00 Honorable Congressman Massie questioning, Secretary Kerry,
I want to read part of your statement back to you,
0:03 GOP Massie Quoting Kerry
“Instead of convening a kangaroo court the president might want to talk with the educated adults he once trusted to fill his top national security positions.”
Massie: “it sounds like you're questioning the credentials of the president's advisors currently but I don't think we should question your credentials today”
Why should we not question the credentials of the likes of Judith Curry, Richard Lindzen, John Christy, William Happer paid for by oil and other Dark Money? With their discredited scientific theories Curry’s Italian flag, Lindzen’s Iris Effect, Happer’s CO2 starvation schtick, and Dr. Christy’s scandalously biased satellite data and model manipulation.
All guilty of decades worth of ignoring data and refusing to acknowledge expert corrections to their notions, all acting as though they haven’t learned a single thing in the past twenty years.
They are paid shills for the oil industry and they are dedicated to stonewalling and confusing the increasingly well understood physics and physical reality of our relentless Carbon Dioxide injections into our life regulating global atmosphere and oceans.
They are paid shills for the oil industry and they are dedicated to stonewalling and confusing the increasingly well understood physics and physical reality of our relentless Carbon Dioxide injections into our life regulating global atmosphere and oceans.
00:22 GOP Massie: “Isn’t it true you have a science degree from Yale?”
Kerry: “Bachelor of arts degree.”
Massie: “Is it a political science degree?”
My degree has nothing to do with the climate science.
I am representing the long studied and debated scientific understanding in this proceeding, it’s the science itself you should be asking about. Not playing this childish gotcha game. It’s demeaning and unfitting the chair you’re sitting in.
Kerry: “Yes, political science.”
GOP Massie: “So how do you get a bachelor of arts in science?”
Kerry: “It’s a liberal arts education and degree.”
00:44 Massie: “So it’s not really science. I think it’s somewhat appropriate that somebody with a pseudoscience degree is here pushing pseudoscience in front of our committee today.”
Aren’t you aware that these questions have been increasingly investigated and constructively debated endlessly, (since the properties of CO2 were first recognized in 1861) by an ever growing community of competent experts that span the globe and the generations.
Dismissing all that with this cynical performance is sinful. Rather than questioning my credentials, or the distilled science of two centuries, how about questioning the credentials of that tiny incestuous community of paid advocates, who have repeated the same discredited storyline for 20 years, held together only by "faith" and a refusal to look at, absorb, or learn from new evidence?
Rep. Massie perhaps we could ask you,
How important are relatively mild weather patterns to the complex global economic and transportation networks that evolved within them? Can you offer an intelligent response to that specific question?
Kerry: “Are you serious? I mean, is this really … happening here?”
How about you Secretary Kerry, how serious are you?
Why are you playing right into the GOP’s contrarian script? This is exactly what cipher’s like Massie are hoping for, befuddling their witnesses, wasting time, and avoiding the guts of the matter.
If GOP Massie wants to hit you with childish questions? Treat him like a child! Give him the benefit of doubt. Explain it to the GOP as though they were inquisitive five year olds! After all, you always have the audience watching, speak to them, most don’t understand it either and need to hear it as much as our opponents do!
All it takes is a thorough understanding of climate science, that requires doing some serious homework. Still the conception of our global heat and moisture distribution’s evolution throughout our planet’s life story isn’t that hard to grasp, specially with today’s learning tools and animations.
The Conversation, June 12, 2017
For something with more details:
Dec 10, 2012
June 1, 2015
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
00:58 GOP Massie: “You know what? It is serious. You’re calling the president’s cabinet a kangaroo court, is that serious?”
01:07 Kerry “I’m not calling his cabinet a kangaroo court, I’m calling this (climate) committee he’s putting together a kangaroo committee.”
GOP Massie: “Are you saying he doesn’t have educated adults there now?”
Kerry: “I don’t know who it has yet, because it’s secret.”
GOP Massie: “Well you said it in your testimony"
Okay take for example Dr. Happer who had a distinguished career in the physics of optics and such. He has no background in Earth Sciences, let alone climate sciences. To be bunt but objectively honest Dr. Happer does not possess the required educational nor professional background, with its accompanying knowledge, to intelligently discuss these issues with experts that do.
William Happer has repeatedly ignored accomplished experts pointing out the errors to his math and physics, yet he refuses to acknowledge or incorporate any of that, like a stone sentinel. (for details please link)
Currently, Happer is not a scientist, he is a well paid advocate for oil industry, he gets paid to churn out misleading propaganda attacking serious science with childish diversions, that refuse to be corrected and reject constructive learning!
All that adds up a text book definition of a Kangaroo judge !
Kerry: “Why would he have to have a secret analysis of climate change?”
GOP Massie: [No response. Of course, they never answer any questions - here a discussion about the difference between a political debate and a constructive scientific-like debate would be in order.]
01:25 Massie: “Let’s get back to the science of it.”
Kerry: “But it's not science, you're not quoting science.”
Of course not Kerry, Massie is playing with you like a mean cat with slow a mouse.
I’ve been watching the GOP doing it to DNP for decades now and you never seem to learn either. It’s almost as though both don’t mind going along with their big lie that Anthropogenic Global Warming is something it’s okay to ignore and kick down the road endlessly. Now the end to that road is coming into sight and you’re all still playing the same games like a broken record.
GOP Massie: “Well you're the science expert you got the political science degree. Look let me ask you this, What’s the consensus on parts per million of co2 in the atmosphere?”
Kerry: “About 406, 406 ppm today.”
GOP Massie: “Okay 406.”
Kerry: “Are you aware 350 ppm being the level that scientists have said is dangerous.”
GOP Massie: Okay 350 is dangerous.
[Massie shakes head mockingly] WOW!
An example of the GOP’s dependence on distracting ridicule to make their arguments.
Massie: Are you aware that since mammals have walked the planet the average has been over a thousand parts per million.
Kerry: Yeah but we weren't walking the planet. It’s, ah, let me just share with you (reading) that we now know definitively at no point during at least the past 800,000 years has atmospheric co2 been as high as it is today.
GOP Massie: The reason you chose 800,000 years ago is because for 200 million years before that was greater than that than it is today. [confusing mumbling about entering something into the record. Would love to know what that was.]
Kerry: Yeah, but there weren't human beings I mean there was a different world folks we didn't have seven billion people then
GOP Massie: So, how did we get to 2,000 ppm if we humans weren't here?
Volcanoes and its achieved current levels through evolution. You do know about evolution GOP Massie?
Scientifically speaking the short answer is, “When CO2 levels were higher in the past, solar (insolation) levels were also lower. The combined effect of sun and CO2 matches well with climate (records and models)”
As for where the carbon came from?
Volcanoes.
Where did the CO2 go to?
Into the tissues of plants and animals who got buried and sequestered over deep-time within Earth’s geologic layers over the deep expanses of time until we started digging it up again.
Why is it a problem now?
Since the last ice age, mainly through volcanic emissions global CO2 levels have increased on average 35 ppm per 1,000 years.
Representative Massie, how long do you think it has taken the most recent 35 ppm to accumulate in our atmosphere these days? Seventeen years! How can you be so glib about these simple fundamentals that take no expertise to grasp - 17 v 1000 - this is no joke.
Do you know why the rate change has happened. GOP Massie?
Our fossil fuels burning coupled with explosively increasing population is what’s causing it.
Sure the news stinks, it’s ugly news, the kind of thing most rather hide from. We are supposed to be the leaders! You are supposed to be among the gown-ups who have chosen to help guide society, yet you come at me with these sorts of childish diversionary tactics. It’s a crime against our children who will inherit this mess we are deliberately creating for them.
Kerry: “Because there were all kinds of geologic events happening on Earth which spewed up [gets cut off my Massie]”
Massie: “Did geology stop when we got on the planet?”
02:45 Kerry: Mr. Chairman oh this is just a not a serious conversation here.
John Kerry, your fainting spells are no help!
Why didn’t you do your homework, shame on you? You could have simply asked the committee to watch a three and a half minute video that wonderfully explains the fundamentals
Why didn’t you do your homework, shame on you? You could have simply asked the committee to watch a three and a half minute video that wonderfully explains the fundamentals
Why couldn’t Democrats pick someone with a thorough understanding of the science >>> along with an understand of the malicious tactics the GOP utilizes to stonewall and confuse the issue for the past four decades?
Is this really the best the Democrats can muster?
GOP Massie: Your testimony is not serious. [turning towards applause] I agree.
On this point, I must agree with GOP’s Massie.
The Democrat John Kerry’s performance was pathetic at best. Although consider, Kerry is the guy that left 14 million dollars unspent in his 2004 losing presidential campaign. Perhaps not exactly the stout of heart bruiser you want on your side when facing maliciously ruthless bullies.
Kerry did not do his homework. Democrats did not anticipate. Worse he obviously doesn’t have a solid enough conception of our planet’s global heat and moisture distribution engine, and how it came into being, to be able to defend the science.
So what the hell was Kerry doing up there?
All the while Republicans are galloping away with their war on science. No wonder we keep losing, while we’re busy rolling our eyes and having fainting spells at the Republican’s malicious audacity - that keeps winning by dismissing honesty.
There’s got to be someone there who can do better, and if not, then get me on your team! I will be happy to do research and ghost write for Democrats facing the GOP's malicious science fraudsters and I've got the track record, review these pages.
This battle for accepting serious scientific honesty can’t be won by repeatedly rolling over and squandering precious learning moments such as those the GOP’s Massie offered John Kerry.
Sincerely,
citizenschallenge at gmail
P.O.Box 56 - Durango, Colorado, 81302 -
P.O.Box 56 - Durango, Colorado, 81302 -
__________________________________________________________________________
https://climateinvestigations.org/category/dark-money/
__________________________________________________________________________
Investigation: Trump Climate Denial Committee
The Washington Post broke the story that the White House plans to “create an ad hoc group of select federal scientists to reassess the government’s analysis of climate science and counter conclusions that the continued …
2018, now what? Considering the Problem in 14 VERSES.
(first few paragraphs of introduction, moved to the end my list.) I want to start the year with this summary of what I've learned from nearly fifty years of paying attention to the unfolding public climate science dialogue, in 14 verses. I share this list because I believe it may help some sort out their own experiences and evolving understanding about what’s actually being argued by Republican climate science ‘skeptics’ such as Pruitt's supposed Red team. Well okay, I’m also hoping to connect with a few like minded individuals, who could help improve it.
I reject and confront the GOP’s assumption that deliberate malicious lying is an appropriate political strategy when it comes to something as serious and consequential as understanding Anthropogenic Global Warming.
14 observations on our dysfunctional public dialogue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Uncertainties vs. known Physical Certainties
It is a disservice to constantly allow trivial uncertainties to become the focal point of the public discussion.
In real life when we get mired or overwhelmed by increasingly complex situations, we stop, back off a little, get reoriented with the big picture, reacquaint ourselves with what we do know for certain, then move forward again.
I’m not saying ignore uncertainties! I’m saying keep reminding us of the overriding fundamental certainties! Thus putting contrarian trivial pursuits into real world perspective.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2) Map vs. Territory Problem
Scientists are Cartographers mapping out the geophysical realities of our planet, the Territory if you will. They do the best they can with the data they have available.
Too often we get trapped into assuming that until our scientists can define all aspects with statistical certainty, we should assume it's okay to ignore.
That's getting lost on the Map and forgetting we exist within the Territory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3) Sloppy usage of “Natural Variability”
Every component and aspect of our Global Heat and Moisture Distribution Engine is warming and energizing. All of Earth’s historic Natural Variabilities are embedded within this global warming matrix.
Too often ‘natural variability’ gets used as a sort of defense against acknowledging the obvious. Weather systems are not caused by manmade global warming, but you can bet every last one of them is certainly impacted by it.
The geophysical reality of a 400 PPM atmosphere is that we have left our historic climate regime. Comparisons to yesteryears offer little guidance for understanding this brave new 400 PPM CO2++ world we have created for ourselves and children.
It's the atmospheric insulation!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4) “Seepage”
Allowing dishonest shrill voices to force scientists into following the contrarian script rather than focusing on conveying our physical reality to the public.
As Prof. Stephen Lewandowsky put it: “...even when scientists are rebutting contrarian talking points, they often do so within a framing and within a linguistic landscape created by denial, and often in a manner that reinforces the contrarian claim. This ‘‘seepage’’ has arguably contributed to a widespread tendency to understate the severity of the climate problem.”
Check out his paper:
1 the scientific community has adopted assumptions or language from discourse that originated outside the scientific community or from a small set of dissenting scientific voices.
2 those assumptions depart from those commonly held by the scientific community.
Also see:
Seepage: Climate change denial and its effect on the scientific community -
Greg Laden - May 15, 2015
On Seeps and SCAMS Part I: Lessons for Climate Scientists - May 14, 2015
On Seeps and SCAMS Part II: Pat'n Chip'n David Fake a Debate.
Seeps and SCAMS Part III: Richard Betts misunderstands (and misrepresents) a paper
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5) “Global Warming” vs “Climate Change”
Give credit where credit is due.
It’s the atmospheric insulation driving these changes!
Be clear Anthropogenic Global Warming is the cause and driver of the increasingly intense cascading Climate Changes we are witnessing.
Cascading Consequences?
More greenhouse gases in the atmosphere;
more molecules catching and releasing infrared radiation;
more infrared radiation bouncing around within the atmosphere;
more heat and energy accumulating within that atmosphere;
more moisture that atmosphere holds;
more heat, moisture and energy being moved around by weather systems;
more intense and destructive weather events.
One thing leads to another.
It's deniable, but unavoidable, physics.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6) Responsibilities of Scientists vs
Responsibilities of Citizens and Students
Scientists are dedicated to their work, given their education and accumulated knowledge, their time is very precious and we need them focusing on their respective tasks.
They are not the ones to fight for the recognition that their work is rational, objective, factually, and morally authoritative. They’ve done the difficult task of accumulating, digesting, reporting, and filing the substantive evidence.
Who’s to defend them and the knowledge they share with society?
A HEALTHY DEMOCRACY DEMANDS AN INFORMED AND ENGAGED CITIZENRY.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
7) Define the Debate, A to Z
A Constructive Argument based on real facts,
with the ultimate goal being a collective better understanding of the issue at hand.
Such as a Scientific Debate where honestly representing your opponent’s position is required. Striving to understand your opponent’s position well enough to reject or modify it with the merits of your own facts and reasoning.
If one fail to convince it means something, and its our challenge to honestly figure out why. It may hurt, but it’s a learning experience for the intellectually honest. Mistakes have always been necessary learning opportunities for the stout.
Z Lawyerly Debate, winning is all that matters, facts are irrelevant obstacles to hurdle. Being skilled in rhetorical trickery is a prerequisite. Objective learning is not the object.
Amorality, misdirection and theatre are its hallmarks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8) Intellectual Confrontation
The fact is, climate science awareness is being actively stifled by ruthless individuals with bottomless bank accounts and octopus news outlets and a growing army of passionate politically active recruits of the two pronged Koch/Bannon brainwashing efforts. They have sold a lazy public a pack of lies that have become the comfort zone of all too many today.
How can the misinformation this juggernaut force feeds the public be neutralized without direct intellectual confrontation by masses of informed, concerned, engaged students, and citizens, everywhere it pops up?
{Do an experiment, go to YouTube search some climate science term, then see how much malicious garbage you need to wade through before the serious honest videos start showing up. Public input is what controls those things, our apathy is allowing their astroturfing on YouTube a free playing field. Plenty of other examples of the same.}
{Do an experiment, go to YouTube search some climate science term, then see how much malicious garbage you need to wade through before the serious honest videos start showing up. Public input is what controls those things, our apathy is allowing their astroturfing on YouTube a free playing field. Plenty of other examples of the same.}
It’s not about attacking people, it’s about attacking the maliciously deceptive words, the lies and stupidity they’re spewing. It’s about teaching them how our physical planet operates!
Focus. Expose the dishonesty in their words and educate them.
A good resource for factual jump starts:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
9) Call out False Claims & Lies
When someone makes a malicious false claim, relentlessly demand evidence for said attack(s) - expose those who refuse to produce evidence for their malicious claims. Examine and expose the props they substituted for substance.
Dissect and confront their tactics rather than being played by them!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10) Better than Skepticism ===> Critical Thinking Skills
The term “Skeptics” has been poisoned by theatre and the grotesque double standard of the GOP.
Critical Thinking Skills is a clear descriptive that explains our process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11) Confront Trash Talk with Rhetorical Jujutsu
Contrarians depend on personal attacks to distract the discussion from their bankrupt “science”. Learn to recognize the game, turn it to your favor, be prepared to point out the juvenility of the tactic, while forcing the discussion back to the real world facts your contrarian opponent won’t have.
fyi, studies in the contrarian mindscape:
LandscapesAndCycles, Jim Steele’s malicious deception.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A contrarian shouts: “Science, science, science.”
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
google “Jujutsu” ~ Food for Thought, turn the conversation into an exploration of the GOP's tactics of avoidance, evasion and lying.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Where appropriate, why not point out Calumny in action?
Be ready to define it: https://dictionary.thelaw.com/calumny/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
12) Faith-based Thinking - God or EGO?
Possessing the hubris to fancy that we petty, jealous, fearful, prideful humans can access and understand the real God of Light and Time, Life and Love, leads to a profound disconnect from our planet’s physical reality, and an immoral absolutism.
It's one thing to believe in an unknowable god, quite another to mistake one’s own hyper-inflated EGO for God.
for explanation see:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
13) The pain of our brave new world
Face it, or not, we are like children being inextricably torn from our mother for all time. Our brave new world is arriving, it will be traumatic, and it won't be wished away. Our existence is transitioning into an ever more deadly game of Russian Weather Roulette and cascading consequences.
Delusional thinking and disregard for scientific understanding and rational constructive dialogue will only make the coming decades that much worse.
Why are we all still allowing it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
14) WE THE PEOPLE,
have the right to demand honesty when hearing what real experts are trying to convey, without being flooded with the constant deceptive and fraudulent cross-screaming of the propaganda machine of unhinged self-obsessed oligarchs and their astro-turfing thugs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (last edited May 31,2018)
Just to underscore that I am absolutely serious about offering my services:
Just to underscore that I am absolutely serious about offering my services:
Happy New Year. I used to be able to say it with a lot more feeling. Nowadays, it has a hollow ring. 2018 does not offer much promise, our business and political leaders are lost within an illusion that’s dependent on ignoring observational and scientific evidence by broadcasting contempt for honesty and serious Earth sciences.
The Murdochs, Kochs, Trump and other such Masters of the Universe seem only interested in crippling our US government, fomenting a civil war among it’s pluralistic citizens and strong-arming ever greater profit margins while increasing power for themselves.
Sadly most everyone else is too busy scrambling with their own day to days to care much about Earth. Don’t rock the boat, don’t think about it and hope for the best. Of course, it's understandable, we're impotent and looking this growing manmade global warming monster in the eye is ever more demoralizing. Outcomes are inevitable, namely an increasingly deadly nasty game of Weather Roulette.
This blog is for the few who get what’s happening. Genuine students of Earth and humanity. Individuals who still believe in curiosity and the human spirit and moving forward. Folks who believe honestly assessing a situation as it is, is the only rational sane way to move through life.
People who aren't ready to give up defending the principles of honesty, curiosity and learning about this planet Earth we belong to and love. This post is also an introduction to the concept of Intellectual Confrontation.
People who aren't ready to give up defending the principles of honesty, curiosity and learning about this planet Earth we belong to and love. This post is also an introduction to the concept of Intellectual Confrontation.
About me and why these efforts
By nature, I’ve always been fascinated by, and actively learning, about our Earth in all her marvelous aspects - along with the humans she created and the evolving society Earth enabled and nurtured.
Shared science has enriched me and made me feel a member of this world and this moment in the time that I find myself experiencing. It’s this feeling of connectedness that drives me to share these thoughts in return.
Best wishes for 2018,
CitizensChallenge at gmail
P.O.Box 56 - Durango, Colorado, 81302 -
Intellectually Confronting Faith-Based thinking and Dogma Driven Deceptions
Considering our dysfunctional public dialogue in 14 verses.
Map v Territory Problem, Statistical Certainty vs Geophysical Realities
https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2018/12/statistical-certainty-vs-geophysical.html
Who says understanding Earth’s Evolution is irrelevant? 2018
Saying No To Reality. Questioning the Geologic Column.
Considering the Missing Key to Stephen Gould’s “Nonoverlapping Magisteria”
Steele’s ‘What’s Natural?’ Dissecting libertarian deception, a fishy tale.
https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/02/steeles-fishy-tale-gop-selfdelusions.html
STOP CALLING SURFACE "COOLING" GLOBAL COOLING ! ! !
Breen LandUseCode Community Meeting - This Is What Democracy Looks Like !
CC's Climate Science Deception - Hall of Shame
Appreciating Earth's Evolution
12) “Faith-based Thinking: God or EGO?" - GOP's hate-on for Pluralism
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a learning (and sharing) project dedicated to dissecting, examining, and confronting the deception dependent Republican assault on climate science and rational constructive debate ~ I invite good-faith discussion.
This is both my personal learning project and my contribution in the struggle to confront the ongoing Republican/ libertarian assault on rational science and constructive learning, as manifested in their malicious strategic Attacks on Science ~ A collection of articles, scientific resources, plus my own essays and indepth critique of various presentations from unidirectional-skeptics ~ Hopefully a resource for the busy, yet discerning, student who's concerned about the health of our Earth
An information source for conservationists wanting to become proactive in the struggle to protect Alberta Park from development. ~ ~ ~ This is a collection of essays and information sources arguing for Mr. B.J. “Red” McCombs to retract his ill considered development plans and return his Alberta Park parcel back to its rightful fold within the Rio Grande National Forest.
Americans for Koch's Prosperity, et cetera.
No comments:
Post a Comment